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Shaun Culver
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Joined: 25 Feb 2008, 13:32 Posts: 105 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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 Exercise [04.04]
Let (1)  Multiplying by  (2)  Subtracting (2) from (1)  Factoring, and then dividing  Substituting  into  to form a new series,   
_________________ “Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there.”
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| 09 Apr 2008, 12:40 |
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Kurdt
Joined: 19 Mar 2008, 14:09 Posts: 36
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 Re: Exercise [4.4]
One could obtain the same answer by initially defining the series as and following a similar procedure.
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| 09 Apr 2008, 13:04 |
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chag-art
Joined: 11 May 2008, 20:07 Posts: 11 Location: france
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 Re: Exercise [4.4]
I think there might be another solution maybe more visual. Something like :  then multiplying on both sides :  and proceeding the multiplication :  . As the series is endless all the unneeded parts are just gone, and there remains the fondamental equation : 
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| 11 May 2008, 20:34 |
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Shaun Culver
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Feb 2008, 13:32 Posts: 105 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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 Re: Exercise [4.4]
chag-art: This seems good to me. If you'd like to, you could post this as an alternative solution with the topic subject being, "Exercise [4.4] b" (without the inverted commas).
_________________ “Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there.”
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| 12 May 2008, 11:58 |
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variounes
Joined: 30 Jun 2008, 22:14 Posts: 25
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
The equation/exercise 4.4 is flawed in the book. It valids only for |x| < 1.
The proof in here is flawed for the same reason.
The equation Sn - xSn = 1 is valid only for |x| < 1
For |x| >= 1, you'll get (Sn - xSn) -> (infinity - infinity*infinity) = infinity.
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| 01 Jul 2008, 17:10 |
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variounes
Joined: 30 Jun 2008, 22:14 Posts: 25
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
That is to say the author of this book should not have speculated with x = 2 then came up with the 'answer' -1/3 for the series. The Eq is not valid for x = 2 right from the start.
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| 01 Jul 2008, 17:16 |
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Shaun Culver
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Feb 2008, 13:32 Posts: 105 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
Well, Professor Penrose doesn't seem to discuss this issue in sufficient detail. He does assert that there are 'senses' in which the expression (where  ) is 'correct'. He refers the reader to Hardy (1949) - this book discusses (I presume) many of the subtleties of divergent series. In this exercise, we are asked to ' check' the expression given. The solution given here to Exercise [4.4] seems, to me, to be sufficient. In showing that the r.h.s. and l.h.s. are equivalent, in some sense, we would have checked the expression. There are definitely subtleties involved in how this equivalence is to be interpreted, but I think that these issues are beyond what is required in this exercise. I may be wrong!
_________________ “Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there.”
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| 02 Jul 2008, 14:12 |
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Shaun Culver
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Feb 2008, 13:32 Posts: 105 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
_________________ “Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there.”
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| 02 Jul 2008, 14:23 |
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variounes
Joined: 30 Jun 2008, 22:14 Posts: 25
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
l.h.s and r.h.s are equivalent? What does 'equivalent' mean? 'A is equivalent to B' is written as A<=>B. If you mean 'equal', then lhs is definitely not equal to rhs, unless you supply a condition.
There may be something intersting about these sums, but the text here is definitely muddled. Anyway, I still don't see where -1/3 or -1/12 come from. In that wikipedia, your series is equal to -1/12(R), whatever R means.
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| 02 Jul 2008, 18:54 |
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Shaun Culver
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Feb 2008, 13:32 Posts: 105 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
The 'equivalence' here is derived from (what seems to be) sensible arguments. In my opinion, whatever is happening "behind the scenes" is beyond the scope of the requirements of the exercise. It would be useful to add these details though. I am not qualified to add details with regard to divergent series...yet. I urge anybody with the necessary background to elucidate this issue. It seems that there is more to this than merely stating: - The equation Sn - xSn = 1 is valid only for |x| < 1
I think that the (R) signifies that the Ramanujan summation technique has been invoked.
_________________ “Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there.”
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| 03 Jul 2008, 08:29 |
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Sameed Zahoor
Joined: 12 Mar 2008, 10:57 Posts: 69 Location: India
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
variounes wrote: The equation/exercise 4.4 is flawed in the book. It valids only for |x| < 1.
The proof in here is flawed for the same reason.
The equation Sn - xSn = 1 is valid only for |x| < 1
For |x| >= 1, you'll get (Sn - xSn) -> (infinity - infinity*infinity) = infinity. This is more complex number magic! If we restrict our domain to only real numbers then your argument is absolutely correct.But if we consider the domain to be the set of complex numbers then the entire scenario changes.A given function may converge even outside its circle of convergence!( although not every where)This is done formally by a procedure called ANALYTIC CONTINUATION.Check out this topic in chapter 7(section 7.4). Adding one complex number to another does not give a 'bigger' or 'smaller' complex number.This is because the set of complex numbers is not 'ordered'. The procedure of analytic continuation has mystic ties with the beautiful "Mandelbrot set" and chaos theory.
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| 10 Jul 2008, 09:12 |
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Shaun Culver
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Feb 2008, 13:32 Posts: 105 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
_________________ “Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there.”
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| 11 Jul 2008, 00:21 |
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NSZ
Joined: 28 Nov 2008, 13:28 Posts: 1
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
the correct answers to these sums are (1-x^2^n)/(1-x^2), and (1-x^2^n)/(1+x^2), where n is number of members in the sum, and in this case is infinity. From that it is quite clear why they converge when IxI<1, and diverge when IxI>1. The plots for the solutions in the book are incorrect therefore, and I must say quite misleading. It is also quite clear from the above solutions why they are "similar" if x is a complex number.
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| 28 Nov 2008, 13:46 |
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tulcod
Joined: 24 Dec 2008, 12:31 Posts: 2
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
 can also be written down as a Taylor series equation. would this result in a proper solution for the exercise?
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| 24 Dec 2008, 13:24 |
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Cabedo
Joined: 22 Jan 2009, 19:33 Posts: 2
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 Re: Exercise [04.04]
tulcod: I had a similar idea when reading this exercise, but applying Mclaurin: For doing so, one needs the successive derivatives of f(x) = 1/(1-x^2), for x=0. Here they are:  (Thanks to Vitalii Vanovschi, http://www.numberempire.com for his excellent derivatives calculator and other mathematical tools). With the derivatives at hand it is straightforward to calculate the decomposition in series of the function: 1/(1-x^2) = 1 + x^2 + x^4 + x^6 + x^8 …. I think this is an absolutely valid answer to the exercise. Checking is good but understanding is better. Regards. Manuel
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| 23 Jan 2009, 19:26 |
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